December 5, 2007

Wednesday With Johan Santana

Some MFY news re: Cashman, Hughes and Santana:

Bob Klapisch: "It wasn't money, it wasn't Ian Kennedy, nor was it the haggling over a third prospect that kept the Yankees from acquiring Johan Santana. When GM general manager Brian Cashman called the Twins at 2 p.m. on Tuesday to withdraw from the Santana sweepstakes, it was because losing Phil Hughes had become too great of a trauma for the Yankees to absorb."

Bill Madden: "Believe it or not, the final decision not to go through with a deal that was on the table - one that would have sacrificed Hughes, Melky Cabrera, 23-year-old Double-A righthander Jeff Marquez and 22-year-old A-ball third baseman Mitch Hilligoss - was based on money. ... [Cashman] never wanted to do this Santana deal, never wanted to get tied up in another expensive long-term contract for a pitcher and, above all, never wanted to give up Hughes."

And the Herald says: "The Red Sox have told Ryan Kalish's agent that his client's name never came up in talks with the Twins."

Sigh. Dozens of updates and reports, yet we really seem to be flying blind.

26 comments:

ish said...

MetsBlog, Keith Law: During a recent spot for ESPN News, ESPN.com’s Keith Law said that the Twins have once again reached out to the Mets, Dodgers and Angels regarding Santana.

ish said...

I saw that coming from a mile away, but it's a tad bit unexpected that it'd be the Twins reaching out to those teams. I'm surprised it wasn't the other way around. It's just common sense. Miguel Cabrera is off the market, so the players for Cabrera could seemingly jump into it for Santana.

Ben said...

We better hope something comes of this, because I'm sure we can't get anything else done at the winter meetings until this is finished. I'm beginning to think the MFY had the right idea setting a deadline.

redsock said...

From SoSH

Gammons on 890 ESPN:
"Too much work has gone into building Boston's minor leagues - maybe they're better staying pat."
"You'd have to tear up Beckett's contract, in addition to Johan's $120 mil."

*******

Old Hickory is wrong on Beckett. There exists no reason to tear up his contract. What will he do? Pout all season cuz Johan is making double? Josh'll get his super big payday later -- and if Santana raises the pay bar, he'll be glad for it.

redsock said...

Star Tribune, 12:11 PM:

"A lot of us here are coming to the realization that the Twins may head home from the winter meetings with Johan Santana still on the roster. The Twins continue to negotiate with multiple teams, and I'm impressed that they've held firm on their demands. ... the chances are growing that a deal won't be finalized here."

redsock said...

This is more like it.

Silverman, Herald:

"The Twins reached out to at least the Mets and Angels, and possibly the Dodgers, on Tuesday to see if those teams could be lured into the Santana bidding, ESPN.com reported. Whether or not the Twins were shopping the Red Sox’ offer because they do not feel it is enough or whether or not the Twins feel the Red Sox’ offer(s) is good enough but they want to take one last swing through the other teams before accepting it remains to be seen."

If I had to choose, I'd say the latter.

ish said...

12:15 p.m., from Peter Gammons
• Don't expect to see a Twins-Red Sox or Twins-Yankees whopper. The sense is now that Minnesota will hold onto Johan Santana.

ish said...

Silverman: NASHVILLE — Manager Terry Francona did get off a good one at Curt Schilling’s expense while speaking with reporters. He got asked if he was pleased that Schilling and Mike Lowell each left money on the table to re-sign with the Red Sox.

“I’m thrilled,” said Francona. “That’s the first time Schill’s left anything on the table.”

redsock said...

NJ Star-Ledger: "A baseball official close to Boston management ... confirmed the Red Sox and Twins today are continuing to negotiate on players in a possible deal. ... the Red Sox are not making offers as if there is still competition for Santana. The official said that opposed to 24 hours earlier -- when the Red Sox were waiting to hear back from the Twins -- the teams are engaged, and that increases the likelihood of a deal."

Devine said...

I can't see how it makes sense for the Twins not to trade Santana. They don't look likely to compete this year (esp. after the Tigers' big splash yesterday), and it's two draft picks at the end of next year if they hold him. AND...a trade deadline swap (if Santana would go for it) seems likely to net them much less than they would get now as well.

This is the window...if they don't get anything else they like at all, then they'll take the Sox' offer.

I won't be upset if the Twins keep Santana (I'm interested to see Lester pitch a full year, though I don't expect miracles), but I'd be pretty confused and surprised.

tim said...

Bottom line is that we're winners either way. Clearly if we get Johan, best LHP in the game. But even if we don't, we have Lester, Ellsbury and probably will trade Crisp for some decent bullpen help or a decent utility player or two...and since johan isn't going to MFY, we'll only have to see him maybe twice the entire year, but as previously mentioned he probably won't be a factor in the playoffs what with the Tigers improvements, and Cleveland/Boston/MFY all in the same league/potential WC contenders. He likely will get traded, probably to Boston, which will clearly be amazing. But even if he doesn't get traded/goes somewhere else, I think we're still in excellent shape.

redsock said...

Heyman saying the Red Sox are still not including "2 of the 3 players Minnesota wants" (Lester AND Ellsbury?). Theo won't blink on this -- he is not desperate.

redsock said...

Lyndon speaks:
"I’m been trying not to pay too much attention to it. But it’s hard when all your friends, my parents and brothers are calling me because they want the inside scoop on everything. It’s tough just knowing that I have no control over where I play or anything like that. ...
"It’s something I hope gets done sooner rather than later and I’m sure Johan feels the same. I’m just working out here in Oregon and staying in shape for anything possible. Where ever I go I’ll obviously give them my 100 percent. ...
[Do you want to stay in Boston?]
"Definitely. Definitely. Coming through the minor-league system, winning the World Series and with the team we have coming back, I want to be a part of that next year. I would love to come back but unfortunately I don’t have any say, whatsoever, where I end up next year. Where ever I do I will definitely give 100 percent, but I would like to stay a Red Sox."

redsock said...

BP: A Minnesota official said Wednesday that he is "99 percent sure" that left-hander Johan Santana will still be a Twin when the meetings end Thursday. The Twins still figure to deal Santana sometime before spring training, though it now seems no longer a complete lock that he will be traded to the Red Sox or the Yankees.

Herald: The latest word out of Nashville suggests that Ellsbury won’t be going anywhere, as Minnesota has begun to listen to other offers with the prospect of holding on to Santana becoming more and more likely.

Jere said...

About reporters asking questions that every single player would answer the same way ("Do you want to stay with [your team]?")--what do they think they're gonna hear?

"God, no. I hate this shit town and the World Series victory meant nothing to me. Our fans all love me and seem to want me to stay, but little do they know I'm praying that I am included in the trade, so I can go to Minnesota, where I've dreamed of playing my whole fucking life."

Something like that? You might as well ask the guy what his name is.

Kennedy said...

The mets are interested in Santana, but they need the A's to help.

There are rumors that Minnesota has initiated talks for a three-way blockbuster with the Twins and A's. Here's how it would go down:

Mets send Jose Reyes, Kevin Mulvey, and Hector Pellot to A's
A's send Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson to Mets
A's send Dan Haren to Twins
Twins send Johan Santana to Mets

Mets get Johan Santana, Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson
A's get Jose Reyes and Kevin Mulvey
Twins get Dan Haren and Hector Pellot

All three teams are very sceptical about it working out, but they appear to at least be talking.

sugarshane024 said...

Interesting! So the Yankees are actually concerned about payroll?

ish said...

MLBTradeRumors.com: Just got an incredible rumor from a trusted New York sportswriter. Stay with me, because this one's crazy. But rest assured that if the source wasn't good, I wouldn't post it.

Minnesota has initiated talks for a three-way blockbuster with the Twins and A's. Here's how it would go down:

Mets send Jose Reyes, Kevin Mulvey to A's
Mets send Hector Pellot to Twins
A's send Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson to Mets
A's send Dan Haren to Twins
Twins send Johan Santana to Mets

Mets get Johan Santana, Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson
A's get Jose Reyes and Kevin Mulvey
Twins get Dan Haren and Hector Pellot


The source says Haren is exactly the type of player the Twins want for Santana, a cheap frontline starter. It's known the Mets would hate to deal Reyes but they would get some value beyond Santana. Billy Beane is happy because he gets Reyes for one more year than he had Haren plus longtime favorite Mulvey. And, he's out of Crosby's contract.

****

That would be incredible, would it not? I'd feel bad that the Red Sox wouldn't be getting either Haren or Santana, but neither would the Yankees. It would be like none of this drama ever happened. The Red Sox would win. But personally, I've been rooting all the while for Santana to be traded to the Red Sox. I've always loved watching him pitch. But this will have to do.

Of course, like everything we've all been hearing, it's just a rumor.

Bartman said...

Ellsbury is going to play every day. Can we trade Gagne for Santana, please?

ish said...

Heh. So much for that mega-rumor. Same link as before...

UPDATE, 12-5-07 at 5:45pm: Billy Beane, who rarely comments on trade rumors, actually went out of his way to call mine below a "total fabrication." I guess I should be proud, right? It sounds like I was the victim of an elaborate hoax/impersonated sportswriter. If so I apologize - not sure why someone would go to such lengths, but lesson learned.

At this point, I want Minnesota to keep Santana and just get a draft pick for him. They're really holding up the show and not giving in.

Kennedy said...

Billy Beane corrected the trade rumor between the A's, twins, and mets calling it a "total fabrication"

sorry

redsock said...

SoSH was talking about that mega-rumour and saying it made no sense from the A's standpoint.

ish said...

SoSH was talking about that mega-rumour and saying it made no sense from the A's standpoint.

I agree. Jose Reyes is my favorite non-Red Sox player, but looking at who the A's would give up to get Reyes? No way. Haren, Crosby, and Johnson... Those three players should be more than enough to acquire SANTANA and then some!

ish said...

WILY MO gets a contract extension with the Nats! Good for him. 2 years, $7 million. He'll make 2 this year and then 5 next year.

Dave said...

Is there another way to look at this Santana opportunity? He would become a free agent after next year, at which point he would be available to the Red Sox again without any trade bait; all they'd have to do is be the highest bidder. But if the trade is made, the Sox (or anyone) would have to give Santana a FA-like contract immediately. Putting those pieces together, the trade would amount to acquiring Santana one year earlier. Why give up all this young talent for just the one year of services?

This is probably just a naive thought on my part, because such deals are done all the time. But I don't see any compelling reasons to give up so much talent just for the one year.

Devine said...

dave...because the Yankees will buy him. This is the Red Sox' best chance (in my opinion) to grab him and talk to him on their own terms, if they intend to have him at all.