June 13, 2008

G70: Reds 3, Red Sox 1

Red Sox - 000 100 000 - 1  5  0
Reds - 100 200 00x - 3 4 0
Masterson turned in another "quality start" (6.2-4-3-3-9, 98), but the Sox bats were silent.

Only two Boston runners touched second base, both in the fourth inning (Ellsbury doubled and two outs later, Manny and Lowell singled). Cincinnati's three pitchers did not issue a walk all night. Drew went 0-for-4 and did not get the ball out of the infield.

Tampa Bay beat Florida 7-3 to move 1.5 GB Boston. The Yankees beat Houston 2-1 and are, once again, a season-best two games over .500.

***

Justin Masterson (2.59, 169 ERA+) / Aaron Harang (4.31, 102 ERA+)

Fresh off a 7-2 homestand that boosted their MLB-best home record to 28-7, the Red Sox hit the road for some more interleague action in Ohio.

Boston leads Tampa Bay in the East by 2.5 games. The Red Sox's largest lead this season has been 3.5 games (May 5-8).

Despite the team's 31-8 record against the NL since the start of 2006, Terry Francona doesn't like the gimmicky mid-season annoyance (that's my description, not his!):
It's not set up fair. You set your team up to play American League baseball and you go and play National League baseball. ... You're asking guys to do things they're not used to doing. I've never quite understood the fairness.
It's the franchise's first trip to Cincinnati since Games 3-4-5 of the 1975 World Series. Boston swept the Reds in three games at Fenway in June 2005 (10-3, 7-0 and 6-1).

Last week, ESPN's Jerry Crasnick wrote a nice overview of the Reds. Cincinnati's BR page is here.

Manny's hamstring troubles may prevent him from playing left field. Sean Casey will start tonight in place of hometown boy Kevin Youkilis.

In Pawtucket, Clay Buchholz explains how he has dropped his arm angle to "not quite three-quarters" to regain consistent command of his fastball.

Tonight: Our new rivals (2.5 GB) host the Marlins, while our old rivals (7 GB) visit Houston.

The Yankees (34-33) were a season-best two games over .500 back on April 23 (12-10). Since then, there have been six occasions when the MFY were one game over .500 -- 12-11, 14-13, 17-16, 28-27, 32-31, 33-32 -- and could have matched that high-water mark, but they always lost the next game. Tonight is their 7th attempt.

344 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 344 of 344
Joe Grav said...


But were you stupid enough to think that because millions considered him a hero, there must have been some truth to that view?


I know WHY a lot of people considered him a hero, even though I think he was an ass and an idiot.

Joe Grav said...

201.

L-girl said...

A lot of people like, what, you, Allan, and 2.2% of the public?

What's this mean, Joe? That if you're in the minority, you're automatically wrong?

No, it doesn't. Never said that.


Your statement clearly implies it.

I must say, if you're going to use popularity as proof of anything, I'm done discussing anything with you.

L-girl said...

I know WHY a lot of people considered him a hero, even though I think he was an ass and an idiot.

So do I. They bought the myth.

Joe Grav said...

No, I already told you what I was referring to. You said "a lot of people would laugh" at my opinion of Russert. I'm reasonably confident that that is not the case.

ish said...

I must say, if you're going to use popularity as proof of anything, I'm done discussing anything with you.

Nick Hornby is an awesome writer!

phil said...

Houston still has a guy on third.

ish said...

Ooooh. That was a pitch Manny usually lets the dongs outside with.

ish said...

The one before the K.

L-girl said...

Nick Hornby is an awesome writer!

:>)

Thanks for the laugh.

redsock said...

Wait - you thought he was "an ass and an idiot"? But you said he was "always hard working [and] honest".

Which is it?

I also missed this above:

I know you abstain from American media

I spent hours a day online following US media for 5-6 years, even after we moved here. So you are dead wrong.

L-girl said...

It's a big world out there, Joe. Just because you don't know a lot of people who'd laugh at that statement, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Joe Grav said...

Wait - you thought he was "an ass and an idiot"? But you said he was "always hard working [and] honest".


I was talking about Ronald Reagan being an ass and an idiot.

L-girl said...

Wait - you thought he was "an ass and an idiot"? But you said he was "always hard working [and] honest".

Which is it?


The ass and idiot was Ronald Reagan. You missed a step.

Joe Grav said...

Well, L, I guess it depends on how you would define 'a lot of people.' I mean, I'm sure there are millions of people in the western world who think Russert and NBC are in the tank for the republicans. The only problem? There are hundreds of millions of people overall.

ish said...

It's a big world out there, Joe. Just because you don't know a lot of people who'd laugh at that statement, doesn't mean they don't exist.

I think there are. Relatively speaking I don't think they'd be considered "a lot". Would, say, 50,000 people out of 200 million people be considered a lot?

redsock said...

Reagan? Oh, yes.

...

(But when he died, no one could say a bad word about him. It's like it was illegal. Same deal with Nixon.)

Joe Grav said...

There are hundreds of millions of people overall, who don't think that***

L-girl said...

I was noting that millions of people disagreed with the post-mortem on Reagan, but you'd never know it to look at the media.

The reaction that Joe feels represents 98% of the public may be similarly skewed.

ish said...

(But when he died, no one could say a bad word about him. It's like it was illegal. Same deal with Nixon.)

It's true. I don't have a huge problem with that. Give it a few days, focus on their good aspects - history won't forget, and neither will you.

L-girl said...

Joe, you want to think that everyone but a couple of weird socialists in Canada thinks Russert was one of the great newsmen of his generation? Then you will.

You are somehow invested in this idea that this dissenting opinion of the recently departed Mr Russert is an outlier? Then you will.

It's obviously important to you to believe this, and it's not at all important to me that you agree with me, so... that's it then.

ish said...

It's obviously important to you to believe this, and it's not at all important to me that you agree with me, so... that's it then.

Makes for an interesting debate, though. From a third-person standpoint.

ish said...

Not so sure this debate happens when Bush dies.

But what about the elder Bush?

L-girl said...

I don't have a huge problem with that. Give it a few days, focus on their good aspects - history won't forget, and neither will you.

But it's not a few days. It's a complete revisionist history. These men wrecked millions of people's lives. Why is it necessary to focus on their good aspects?

People did this with Pinochet, for goddsakes! With Marcos. It's awful.

redsock said...

Give it a few days, focus on their good aspects

Shit, with Nixon and Reagan, you could do that in 5 minutes.

Total. For both.

redsock said...

An ex-Prez?

It'll be a love fest.

L-girl said...

Ish, the elder Bush was a war criminal too. But the revision is already happening. People now think he was a benign figure. The rehabilitation cycle happens very quickly now.

L-girl said...

Makes for an interesting debate, though. From a third-person standpoint.

I doubt most gamethreaders don't think so, but I'm glad someone did! :)

Joe Grav said...

Well, L, on one hand, you're criticizing the massive public outpouring of emotion over Russert, saying that people are showering him with tons of unnecessary praise; on the other hand, you're telling me that there are tons of people who think he was a horrible journalist who was in the tank for republicans.

Which is it?

No, I don't know every single human in America, but I do know that most intelligent people I talk to like Russert and MTP and think of him as a fair, impressive journalist. I also know that millions of people watched him on MTP. Is that ironclad proof of anything? No, not really, and I'm not claiming it is.

phil said...

THE Andy Phillips? Apparently so.

ish said...

But it's not a few days. It's a complete revisionist history. These men wrecked millions of people's lives. Why is it necessary to focus on their good aspects?

See, this is why we have funerals. And for the bigwigs, the media has their own funeral, like what is occuring currently on MSNBC. People fond of the deceased celebrate their life, while everyone else continues on with their lives.

Come on. History is history. If this happens with Reagan, then what does that say about how George Washington or Abraham Lincoln are remembered? I agree with you. Explain the reality, and don't be afraid if you offend someone. What happened happened. It needs to be said.

L-girl said...

Joe, there's no contradiction in what I'm saying. If you go back and read what I've written, you'll see that. If you don't want to, that's fine. I'm done.

Joe Grav said...

There is no shortage of criticism of Reagan. hell, during the Dem presidential debates, Clinton and Obama had a bitchfest over who likes Reagan less.

Joe Grav said...

L, do you really think that a lot of people share your view that Russert was some sort of right-wing hack?

I'm not asking you whether you think your opinion is correct. I'm asking you whether you think it's widely held.

L-girl said...

I agree with you about funerals. But to me, some people's negative importance is too great to sugar-coat.

It's not true that "history is history". History is hugely different depending on who writes it. Read a history textbook from the US in 1950, read one from Canada in the 1980s, and read Howard Zinn, look up the same subject in each book, it will be a completely different view.

There is not one view of Washington or Lincoln. There are dozens of views. That's why new biographies come out all the time.

ish said...

Ish, the elder Bush was a war criminal too. But the revision is already happening. People now think he was a benign figure. The rehabilitation cycle happens very quickly now.

Kinda like being in prison or in a war zone for 4 or 8 years, and then 16 years later saying ehh... it wasn't so bad.

redsock said...

i would like some boston runs.

cash
?
lyndon

Joe Grav said...


There is not one view of Washington or Lincoln. There are dozens of views. That's why new biographies come out all the time.


Right... same with Reagan. You're crazy if you think there's some sort of monolithic agreement about Reagan's 'greatness.'

ish said...

It's not true that "history is history". History is hugely different depending on who writes it. Read a history textbook from the US in 1950, read one from Canada in the 1980s, and read Howard Zinn, look up the same subject in each book, it will be a completely different view.

So, if someone writes that something happened that didn't happen, it's history?

phil said...

What is this, Family Feud? What does being widely held buy you?

Runs, please.

L-girl said...

Kinda like being in prison or in a war zone for 4 or 8 years, and then 16 years later saying ehh... it wasn't so bad.

Right. :)

When people started saying Bush was the worst US prez ever, I wasn't sure, I felt they were sugar-coating Nixon.

But now I'm pretty convinced.

redsock said...

L, do you really think that a lot of people share your view that Russert was some sort of right-wing hack?

Among people who care about such things, yes.

Amy said...

Is there a baseball game tonight? Hard to tell from the game thread!

I apologize for just tuning in.

L-girl said...

So, if someone writes that something happened that didn't happen, it's history?

Yes, unfortunately.

That's what George Orwell was all about, how history is rewritten. Then the lies become History.

Joe Grav said...

What is this, Family Feud? What does being widely held buy you?

Nothin'.

But: Joe, you want to think that everyone but a couple of weird socialists in Canada thinks Russert was one of the great newsmen of his generation? Then you will.

ish said...

A couple of other headlines of the day that tie in here a bit:

A split over whether coverage of Clinton was sexist

News Outlets Face Increasing Scrutiny in Campaign

Amy said...

Bush is the worst President EVER.

Thank God the Supreme Court still has a few decent people left.

phil said...

amy: let's stand in the corner over here and talk about baseball.


--------------------->

L-girl said...

You're crazy if you think there's some sort of monolithic agreement about Reagan's 'greatness.'

I was referring to the monolithic reaction to Reagan's death. It was taboo to say anything negative, and I found that very distasteful and dishonest.

What does being widely held buy you?

Good question.

ish said...

Is there a baseball game tonight? Hard to tell from the game thread!

I apologize for just tuning in.


These things tend to take on a life of their own when the Red Sox are losing, don't they? Or winning big.

Joe Grav said...

In this internet age, everyone's super-scrutinizing everything everyone says. I'm not surprised that you see headlines like that.

redsock said...

So, if someone writes that something happened that didn't happen, it's history?

I'll go further. That's the only way mainstreasm history is written.

...

The old saying is true: The winners write the history books.

phil said...

Looks tonight like the Celtics forgot to drop some win out of the plane when they flew over Ohio.

Amy said...

On Russert, I think more than anything else people relate to the shock of someone 58 years old dying. It isn't about his politics or his worth as a journalist. It is that a face and a name that we all knew has died, and that makes it hit home because it could have been one of us, or someone we knew and loved. It isn't about Russert per se. It's about all of us.

Joe Grav said...


I was referring to the monolithic reaction to Reagan's death.


It wasn't monolithic in my neck of the woods.

ish said...

The old saying is true: The winners write the history books.

It's true. That's why, for instance, NESN wouldn't show a game that's widely known to be a Classic, if it features the other team being the victor. Would you ever see the 2003 ALCS Game 7 on NESN? (Ignoring the fact that it was aired on FOX, therefore not being available to NESN or YES)

Joe Grav said...

I agree with you, amy.

L-girl said...

What's going on with that basketball stuff anyway?

redsock said...

fuckin' lbj.

(i mean ellsbury!)

Joe Grav said...

Boston is about to win the championship.

L-girl said...

I agree with you, amy.

You know you just completely contradicted everything else you said, right?

phil said...

ish: NESN's showed that 1-0 Giambi/Wakefield loss as a classic, I'm told.

Joe Grav said...

No. I believe I made a similar point to that earlier.

ish said...

What's going on with that basketball stuff anyway?

Heh, speaking of classic games.

L-girl said...

Amy said it's not about Russert per se. You've been saying something quite different.

phil said...

ESPN Classic's showing last night's game again Saturday night, I hear.

ish said...

ish: NESN's showed that 1-0 Giambi/Wakefield loss as a classic, I'm told.

Oh yeah! I remember seeing a couple of those Red Sox Classic games being losses. Only a couple.

L-girl said...

Heh, speaking of classic games.

???

Joe Grav said...

I said that I, personally, was saddened by his death because I considered him to be 1) a great newsman and 2) a devoted member of a community to which I belong.

I never said that that's why most Americans have been impacted by it.

Amy said...

THere's a basketball game tonight?? Sheesh, why didn't someone call me?

Phil, when did Masterson get pulled? I heard the inning when he gave up runs 2 and 3 in the car on the way back from dinner.

Joe Grav said...

Amy said it's not about Russert per se. You've been saying something quite different.
Untrue. I made that exact same point earlier. I'll fish up the quote.

???
Boston was down by 25 points yesterday and came back to win.

redsock said...

I question whether Bush is worse than the presidents who slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Native Americans, destroyed various parts of the country in doing it, and presided over slavery (and who knows what else)?

He might be -- in terms of worldwide harm -- but it's not the landslide many people think it is.

phil said...

Michelle Obama's in Cincinnati tonight. Maybe she can play shortstop.

phil said...

Masterson got pulled after two outs in the 7th when he hit 98 pitches. He must be on a strict limit.

Joe Grav said...

I find it really hard to rank 'bests' and 'worsts' of things, especially qualitative things. It's not like there's a neat little 'box score' to tell us about the positive and negative impacts of each President.

phil said...

Houston ties it.

FKR up 6-3.

ish said...

Heh, speaking of classic games.

???


The Celtics were down by as much as 24 points... down by 21 after the first quarter (largest deficit after first quarter in NBA Finals history)... 18 in the second quarter. 6 minutes left in the third, they started coming back, coming back. They were down by 2 points (correct me if I'm wrong Joe or Phil or anyone else) at the end of the third. They came back to win by 6 points, 97-91. Now leading 3 games to 1 in the Finals.

redsock said...

He might be -- in terms of worldwide harm -- but it's not the landslide many people think it is.

Oh, so you think Bush is great now? What a fuckhead you are!!11!!1!! Fuck your bloog.

Joe Grav said...

Stupid bloogers.

Joe Grav said...

I still like you guys, by the way. :P

I think this has been a reasonable argument, which is all I really ask.

phil said...

Yeah, down 2 at the end of the third.

SoSH has put this up as its masthead.

ish said...

SoSH has put this up as its masthead.

I loved seeing that. Get your FUCKING hands off me! I'd expect better manners from you, Dick.

L-girl said...

He might be -- in terms of worldwide harm -- but it's not the landslide many people think it is.

I think that's what I react to when people say Bush is the worst ever.

I think that feeling comes at least partly b/c Bush is what we're dealing with now. The others have the distance of history.

Amy said...

OK, here's the sick part about Russert's death. Harvey just read that he had coronary disease, that this wasn't out of the blue. And that made him (age 53) and me (age 55) feel better. So...for us, sadly this was about our own mortality. I can bet that for my kids, it was about their parents' mortality. Yes, I feel sad for his wife and his children. As a compassionate human being, how could I not? I feel the same way about Teddy Kennedy, all the soldiers who have died in Iraq, the people killed in the floods in Iowa, and those who died in China and Myanmar. Tim Russert just focuses us all on that one individual loss which is easier to relate to.

phil said...

ish might also like this one.

redsock said...

I still like you guys, by the way. :P

As long as you know deep down that I'm always right, everything will be cool. :P

L-girl said...

THere's a basketball game tonight?? Sheesh, why didn't someone call me?

:>)

redsock said...

nice inning from aaaaaaaaaaardsma

we need runs, shorty.

ish said...

Meanwhile, we're staring down the barrel of a water purifier. AHHHH!!! Save us, Petey! And On Fire! And Manny!

FY starts it!

L-girl said...

I didn't think the argument was reasonable. Sorry.

phil said...

Say what you will about Andrew Jackson, but at least he won his wars of conquest.

redsock said...

it's time for the red sox to

CLOG THE BASES!!!!!!!!!!!

ish said...

Phil, I think I like Ray's shot better than MJ's there.

redsock said...

cock & balls

i wish manny was up now.

ish said...

Someone's pouring a wiiiiiiitle bit of clean water on On Fire's... fire.

Amy said...

OK, I will qualify my statement. Bush is the worst President of my life time. He has done more harm to the Constitution, to the US's standing in the world, and to human rights and conditions in general than Nixon or Reagan, the other two who I consider to be among the worst of my life.

ish said...

Doctor Doubles to the ER. STAT.

phil said...

No Manny to tie this. :(

Amy said...

One out to go. Lowell hits a HR and we are back in the game.

redsock said...

tiem for the doctor to bring the Rx.

ish said...

Damn.

Drinkable water.

Amy said...

So much for that.

And, by the way, I hate interleague play.

Joe Grav said...

I gotta run and write my game notes (thank god I'm not on game story duty tonight, as I have been very negligent hahaha)... ttyl

L-girl said...

crap.

the game, i mean.

phil said...

Bush is the worst president since James Buchanan. That's enough qualification.

I hate losing.

redsock said...

Poo.

Another nice start for Justin "When Is He Going To Regress?" Masterson!

L-girl said...

fireworks on tv and it is lightning like crazy outside. a strange effect!

phil said...

Russert was a MFYs fan too. I hope they choke on his hambone.

Amy said...

Glad I had two drinks with dinner. It helps take the sting out of this one.

ish said...

Russert was a MFYs fan too. I hope they choke on his hambone.

I guess he was an asshole then.

He also liked the Nats. I thought he was a busy man. You watch a Nats game, you'll be itching to get back to work.

redsock said...

so who's gonna die and start a ruckus amongst us tomorrow?

ish said...

so who's gonna die and start a ruckus amongst us tomorrow?

...Michael Stipe?

redsock said...

I am not amused.

I'll settle for Hornby.

L-girl said...

You know they always die in threes...

Amy said...

As long as it's not a member of the Red Sox, we are bound to disagree!

ish said...

I am not amused.

Exactly. There would be RUCKUS! AMONGST US!

L-girl said...

Ish, if Michael Stipe dies tomorrow, you're gonna feel guilty!

Shit, it's going crazy outside. Gotta go give a dog a tranquilizer. See you all tomorrow, work permitting.

Amy said...

Hey, Laura, did you have a good birthday? Did you ever get your present?

ish said...

Ish, if Michael Stipe dies tomorrow, you're gonna feel guilty!

Shit, it's going crazy outside. Gotta go give a dog a tranquilizer. See you all tomorrow, work permitting.


I'll be weirded out a little.

phil said...

Doggy gets happy pills?

Joba's IBBing Berkman. Pussy.

redsock said...

Presents?
She got a fuckin' haul!

redsock said...

You know they always die in threes...

Can they all be media?

I vote for CHB and Rush.

No wait, Coulter, no Hannity, no, Kay ...

are you sure they don't happen in thirty-threes????

redsock said...

More like anti-freakout pills.

Amy said...

Good for you, Allan. A haul of presents is always a good thing.

ish said...

I wonder if anyone's gonna win an Emmy on the coverage of Tim Russert's death.

Amy said...

OK, I am going to go read and turn in. At least if we were going to lose this game, it didn't drag out for over three hours.

L-girl said...

Oops sorry Amy, I was out of the room.

I had a great birthday. We celebrated yesterday and today I had a lovely quiet day reading and blogging, a real treat.

Re presents, Allan is the Laura's Birthday King. He makes me the nicest birthday every year, it's quite amazing.

L-girl said...

Amy, when is yours?

phil said...

Joba leaves with the score tied, so still no starting win for him.

nick said...

looks like I helped set things off (certainly not for the sox). A couple of thoughts:

- No matter how shitty a person is, I feel bad for the people who cared about them. I'm willing to get over that, but it is what comes at me first.

- Today two of my friends turned 58, so when I saw that Timmeh died at 58 today it was an immediate connection to their mortality.

- Timmeh was a partisan hack. pretty much undebatable in my book. He has been on the forefront of dumbing down American political discourse from heights that would have drowned in a wading pool to begin with (huh? well, y'know what I mean). Compassion for his family aside, I am glad he is no longer taking part in mainstream media, but his story will certainly be whitewashed.

- I agree with pretty much all of the political analyses that our hosts have provided, though I think they are quick with an edge that causes others to become defensive which in turn makes it harder for them to come around to the, ah, right side of an issue. Doesn't make them less right, but it makes the teachable moment harder to learn.

- I hear there was a baseball game somewhere.

- I was actually hit pretty hard by a "national" death recently, but someone that, say, 98% of the country has never heard of - Utah Phillips. There's a national hero to me--and a better political media personality than Timmeh would ever have been.

- There are so many good actual journalists in this country, but they are generally marginalized by mainstream media such that most people have never heard of them.

- feel the love.

ish said...

ESPN: Sources: MLB hopes to have replay system set before season's end

phil said...

We lose and everyone else wins. One of those nights.

Joe Grav said...

You know, not to beat a dead horse, but Russert worked for the Democratic Party in NYC before going into the media. If he was a 'partisan hack,' it wasn't for the Republicans.

Joe Grav said...

and Phil: those nights happen, sometimes. We'll be fine. :)

And happy birthday, L.

redsock said...

We'll be fine.

Was this on purpose?

redsock said...

Final thought re Russert: I think of him like Michael Kay. He says good things about the Red Sox at times and is not above criticizing the Yankees, but when you look at his whole career, it's pretty obvious he favors the Yankees and is not adverse to making shit up about the Red Sox.

Jere said...

zen: I've said this here before, I'm sure, but, you said how interleague is good for fans who don't get to see their team. And I say, if they really want to do that, go ahead. But don't count the games in the standings.

(Also note, the Red Sox never once came to the Danbury, CT, area, but I drove to see them plenty of times in Baltimore, Philly, Cleveland, Canada.... it's fun! You can't be like my sister in volleyball and just stand in one spot in life, assuming the ball will come to you. Sometimes you have to go to where the ball goes.)

Amy said...

Laura, sorry I missed your question. The combination of a long bike ride and two drinks = falling asleep before 10 pm!

My birthday is not until August, but our 32nd anniversary is next Friday. Except for Harvey's birthday, all our big events (anniversary, my birthday, kids' birthdays) are somewhere between June 20 and September 20. I just love the summer!

L-girl said...

I'm still waiting to learn why it was ironic that Russert was a newsman rather than a musician or actor.

L-girl said...

Amy, happy anniversary in advance! Perhaps you will email me to tell me when your birthday is. "Not until August" is too vague. :)

L-girl said...

Nick, excellent comment.

You're certainly right about the edge and the learning curve, at least in game threads. I can be an educator when I slow down, writing on my own, but in this kind of debate, my natural inclination is the mode you saw tonight (that is, last night).

I am much more relaxed and much less edgy than I used to be. Because of that, it's not surprising I don't always realize how much edge is getting through. To me it seems relatively calm. :)

Thanks very much for your thoughts!

redsock said...

I'm still waiting to learn why it was ironic that Russert was a newsman rather than a musician or actor.

I believe it is actually Alanic.

Amy said...

Thanks, Laura. My birthday is the fifth. I wasn't being evasive; I am just not a big birthday celebrant. Having a summer birthday generally meant, from age 10 on, that I was away at camp. I loved having my birthday at camp, and it did avoid the awkwardness of birthday celebrations at home. Now it means I am away at the Cape, celebrating with just Harvey and a daughter or two, if they (the daughters) are here.

L-girl said...

And happy birthday, L.

Oops, just saw this now. Thanks, Joe, and for your happy birthday email, before all this.

«Oldest ‹Older   201 – 344 of 344   Newer› Newest»