July 31, 2008

As Manny Situation Gets Uglier, Tenative Trade In Place

Manny Ramirez, to ESPNdeportes before Wednesday night's game:
The Red Sox don't deserve a player like me. During my years here I've seen how they [the Red Sox] have mistreated other great players when they didn't want them to try to turn the fans against them. The Red Sox did the same with guys like Nomar Garciaparra and Pedro Martinez, and now they do the same with me. Their goal is to paint me as the bad guy. I love Boston fans, but the Red Sox don't deserve me. I'm not talking about money. Mental peace has no price and I don't have peace here.
Shit, this has gotten ugly.

Why does it have to be this way? Why does the Red Sox front office, regardless of who is in charge, feel obligated to trash its star players on their way out the door? And why do the players, even with their wounded pride, feel the need to lash out at an organization which has treated them pretty well over the years?

If Red Sox management wants to cut ties with Ramirez after this season -- and a very good argument can be made for doing so -- why can't they simply explain their reasons? Why can't it be strictly business? I'd respect that, as I believe most fans would. Why does this current ownership group, which makes a point of saying they do not run the team according to the whims of the fan base, have to resort to media leaks and childish smears designed to turn the fans against a player? As long-time fans, we deserve better. And the players deserve better.

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Here are three of the many links out there:

Will Carroll, Baseball Prospectus:
The Commissioner's Office has been informed of a deal involving the Pirates, Red Sox, and Marlins. The Commissioner has to sign off on any deal involving cash considerations of more than a million dollars, and there was clearly going to be cash involved in any deal involving these teams. ...

There's still a lot of haggling but my scribbling notes make it look like the structure of the deal is:

Marlins get Manny Ramirez, one prospect (Red Sox), and cash (likely covering Ramirez's remaining salary)
Pirates get Jeremy Hermida and three prospects (two Marlins, one Red Sox)
Red Sox get Jason Bay and John Grabow
Palm Beach Post:
The Marlins have reached a tentative agreement to acquire Manny Ramirez from Boston as part of a three-team deal that will send Jeremy Hermida and three Florida prospects to Pittsburgh, an American League source said Wednesday night.

Officials with the Marlins and Red Sox did not confirm the deal but the source said a tentative agreement was reached about 10 p.m. Wednesday.

The Marlins will get Ramirez for Hermida, right-hander Ryan Tucker and two other prospects, with those four players being flipped to Pittsburgh for outfielder Jason Bay and left-hander John Grabow.

The Red Sox will send the Marlins enough cash to cover the remainder of Ramirez contract, as well as an unnamed prospect.

Pittsburgh gets Hermida and two prospects -- two from Florida and one from Boston. One of the Marlins' prospects is believed to be Tucker.
Jon Heyman, SI.com:
The Marlins and Pirates are both said to be haggling with the Red Sox over a prospect or two in a potential three-team blockbuster that would send embattled superstar Manny Ramirez to Florida in what could rank as the surprise blockbuster of the century. ...

The Red Sox have talked to other teams about Ramirez, but their talks appear to be centered on the Marlins now. People involved in the discussions say several combinations of players and teams are being discussed, but in just about all of them Ramirez would wind up with the Marlins. No deal has been agreed to yet, and it's still possible Ramirez could remain with the Red Sox, though it's now believed that the deal will be consummated close to Thursday's 4 p.m. ET non-waiver trade deadline.
Sean McAdam, ProJo:
As if dealing away Manny Ramirez wasn't complicated enough, the Red Sox last night were working feverishly to move the controversial outfielder in a three-team deal involving the Florida Marlins and Pittsburgh Pirates that, if completed, would give the Sox a power bat to replace Ramirez in left field and some bullpen help.

The basic structure is this: the Red Sox would send Ramirez (and cash to pay his remaining salary) and a prospect to the Marlins. The Red Sox would get two or three prospects back from the Marlins, and send them and a prospect of their own to Pittsburgh and the Sox would get outfielder Jason Bay and reliever John Grabow. The Pirates would also get Jeremy Hermida from the Marlins.

17 comments:

redsock said...

I'd be quite happy with Jason Bay in red socks.

redsock said...

Update from Gordon Edes at 12:05 a.m.: The Palm Beach Post reported that the Sox had reached a tentative agreement with the Marlins and Pirates in which Manny Ramirez would go to Florida, the Marlins would send OF Jeremy Hermidia to Piitsburgh as part of a multiplayer package, and the Sox would receive OF Jason Bay and LHP Josh Grabow. My sources tell me that is not true, a deal has not been struck, but the sides continue to talk. It may be getting close.

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redsock said...

And so to bed.

truth said...

When I heard Manny's comments, I thought, he's right. They did trash Nomar as he left. They did trash Pedro. And it was completely unnecessary.

I hate to see them doing it all over again to Manny.

Pat said...

You said:
Why does this current ownership group, which makes a point of saying they do not run the team according to the whims of the fan base, have to resort to media leaks and childish smears designed to turn the fans against a player?

This is based on fact?

joel said...

i like jason bay as well...but seriously..can we not get a damn short stop? i love jed, but i cant live with lugo when he comes back...

James said...

Yikes.

Insane. I don't know what to say. I was hoping for Pat the Bat, but Bay is pretty cool, as well. He should be able to take advantage of the monster pretty well. Fenway is a better place for righties than PNC, if I recall correctly. I'm sure someone has info about that.

The difference in hitting should be made up by with Bay's superior fielding and baserunning, and by Grabow's helping out the pen. I just hope the prospect we have to give up is a low-level guy, not Kalish/Masterson/etc.

Nuts, though. Just plain insane. Crazier than the Nomar thing.

stephen o'grady said...

"Why does this current ownership group, which makes a point of saying they do not run the team according to the whims of the fan base, have to resort to media leaks and childish smears designed to turn the fans against a player? As long-time fans, we deserve better. And the players deserve better."


I don't know, I really have a hard time pinning this one on Manny. Granted, the media doesn't like him and trashes him at each and every opportunity; Edes' treatment, in particularly, has been shamefully poor historically.


But it really seems to me that you've been bending over backwards to defend a player who is behaving as if he's still the player he was four or five years ago. The on again, off again trade requests were not the product of the front office, nor was his pushing of McCormick, nor was his decision not to seek treatment for a theoretically injured knee.


The most glaring indication, for me, that he needs to go is his inability to get along with Francona. As far back as 2006, Olney said:

"Think about how nutty this situation is: In the last five weeks of the 2006 season, reliever Julian Tavarez -- who became Manny's Tony Snow, his spokesman -- knew more about whether Manny was going to play or whether he was available to pinch-hit than Boston manager Terry Francona, general manager Theo Epstein and owners John Henry and Larry Lucchino. Absurd."


Fast forward to this past week, and Francona - willing to take a bullet for his players, almost to a fault - has had little to say to defend Ramirez.


I could care less if Ramirez can't get along with Edes. I do care if he can't get along with Francona.


We'd miss his production if he was gone - and I am certainly not arguing that he should be traded for the sake of trading him - but I would try hard to get rid of him. I just can't agree that the firestorm that could accompany him on the way out is the mere creation of the media and a peeved front office. I think there's a substantial amount of smoke behind this fire.

stephen o'grady said...

Sorry, I mean "don't" have a hard time pinning this on Manny. That's what I get for commenting at two in the morning.

ish said...

Boof. Out of nowhere, the White Sox acquire Ken Griffey, Jr. The deal is pending his approval, but when the Red Sox go out to Chicago, they'll probably have to deal with the Kid once again.

See, that's the magic of Trade Deadlnie Day. There are deals you hear about, two-three days before the deadline, but there are deals that come straight out of, well left... right field in this case... that you weren't expecting. As 4:00 nears, you'll see more of these types of deals, I'm sure.

Maybe that sort of thing will affect the Red Sox. Who knows? The Pirates were still talking to Tampa about Jason Bay, maybe something happens out of the blue that throws a monkey wrench into things.

As far as Manny goes, I wish the Red Sox could get more for him than just Bay and Grabow. But it sounds like they would be paying all of Manny's salary, and shipping a guy like Hunter Jones to Pittsburgh.

ish said...

And now, the AP is saying there is NO tentative deal in place.

Trade Deadline Day should have its own song or something. You can sing when you start hearing conflicting rumors. Lalalalalalalalalala.

ish said...


The Royals
have reportedly offered Ron Mahay to the Red Sox for outfielder Brandon Moss.

That would be an interesting trade, and I'm not sure I'd mind that. Moss was a good fill-in when a guy goes on the DL, but unless he gets constant playing time at the Major League level, his bat is not going to be good enough to keep giving him opportunities to be called up. Give him a long look with a Big club and he'll get into a rhythm and hit. The Royals can do that.

ish said...

Edes:

The person most strongly opposed to trading Ramírez has been owner John W. Henry, who takes the position that the Sox cannot get sufficient value in return for him, and that Ramírez gives the team its best chance of winning. The team has been through these melodramas before with Ramírez - that's Henry's position - and in the end Ramírez's bat has had the last word.

Jack Marshall said...

I think a good argument for trading Manny for Bay and Grabow could be made even if Manny weren't behaving like a 10-year old. Bay's a lot younger, and signed through next year. (After the Red Sox decline Manny's option, they have nothing but his money to play with.)He may be getting better; Manny is declining. Who cares if the Sox have to throw in 7 mil? It's not my money.

Sure---if Manny hadn't had another break-out of pre-adolescence and the Sox were playing well, I wouldn't want to take him out of the line-up. But if both Manny and Bay play up to their performances so far, the offensive loss from substituting one for the other over two months is minimal. Plus you get a better fielder, base-runner, AND, most importantly, a player who isn't threatening to loaf the rest of the year.

What's not to like?

Eric said...

I blame the media. It's been all too apparent in the last five years that Manny will get hypersensitive when he perceives a slight - and yet the media continues to do its best to inflame every slight into a firestorm. Manny may not have the self-control to not lash out, but the media makes it MUCH worse.

andy said...

Jason Bay. Calm. Cool. Collected. I will miss Manny.

skb1976 said...

Manny.

I think a lot of Sox fans, while in love with his bat, are, like me, getting tired of the same old shit. Every year, it's the same old stories, the same old struggles with Manny, the same everything.

Icons have their place and time. Time's running out on Manny. It appears that his teammates are getting tired of his act. His manager is tiring of his act. The ownership is tiring of his act.

And frankly? He's not the same player he was in 2004. His production is down. His gaffes are up. And his time is up.

I can't even say I'll miss the hitter. I certainly won't miss the media cancer he's become.